NRO Wanks The McCain Crank Over Faith Forum

([update] Welcome to CNN readers that found this through their sphere links. Feel free to agree or disagree in comments!)

The NRO's misguided take on last night's Forum on Faith:
Team McCain needn’t have worried. This was not your usual political TV show. Warren — Pastor Rick, around here — asked big questions, about big subjects; he wasn’t concerned about what appeared on the front page of that morning’s Washington Post. And his simple, direct, big questions brought out something we don’t usually see in a presidential face-off; in this forum, as opposed to a read-the-prompter speech, or even a debate focused on the issues of the moment, the candidates were forced to call on everything they had — the things they have done and learned throughout their lives. And the fact is, John McCain has lived a much bigger life than Barack Obama.
The fact is that John McCain presented nothing more than canned stump speech answers to most of the questions. Ya know? The same old same old you would expect from any republican campaign. Predictable in his own self reverence (X = Heroic, X= Courage, X= Mavericky touchy feely across the aisle in a way only a republican could ever do), the bulk of the McCain interview was straight off of the pages of a GOP talking point cartoon strip.
When McCain got the question, he was able to tell an old story with a sense of gravity and poignancy that he seldom shows in public. He described his time as a prisoner of war,
Blah, blah, heard it at every stump speech and choreographed townhall, blahghety blah.

“I’ve always put my country first. And one of the times I had that test was years ago, and far way, in a North Vietnamese prison camp, when our North Vietnamese captors came to me and said: ‘You can go home early.’ Well my friends,
Cue this Blogs canned laughter to the canned stumped speech response.

And would the freak stop calling everyone "my friends"... MY FRIENDS understand that there is nothing funny going on with the disaster that is this countries economy and they also understand the view that "$5 million per year" as the line for separating the rich from the poor is not funny unless you are a clueless elitist with a rich wife that balances your checkbook and signs your checks. You can't distort that ridiculously callous statement.

Right now most of MY FRIENDS have cut back on expenses so much that many of them cannot afford one beer for themselves, never mind imagining they are going to be drinking with and from John and Cindy McCain's brewery heiress fortunes.

Calling everyone "my friends" is about as maverICKY as McCain can possibly get.

Some of the real issues that McCain needed to shore up and tried to maneuver as his positives? Here is his response to working with the opposition:
When McCain got the question, everyone in the room thought he would bring up campaign-finance reform, the issue on which he has alienated the Republican base for years. But he didn’t. “Climate change, out-of-control spending, torture,”
Let's look at how McCain reached out across the aisle on these issues, OK?

"Torture" - McCain said he was against it and worked across the aisle on it... But didn't support banning it. McCain specifically talked about how he was tortured last night. Here are his actions in votes:
The Feinstein Amendment would have accomplished all of these objectives, but Senator McCain voted against it, presumably because he wishes that the CIA be permitted to continue the use of other of its enhanced techniques, apart from waterboarding. Those techniques are reported to include stress positions, hypothermia, threats to the detainee and his family, severe sleep deprivation, and severe sensory deprivation.
Note the bolded torture there that McCain specifically talked about as his torture experiences canned response last night. But did not support banning. McCain talked about being completely segregated from other prisoners, pretty severe, huh? Not to mention the stress positions torture McCain discussed, which are common knowledge. Never mind the complete and ongoing lack of respect for honest justice being involved in the entire republican side's position on prisoner torture.

"Out-of-control spending"
- The largest part of out of control spending in the budget is the illegal invasion and occupation of Iraq. McCain, along with his incompetent buddy Lieberman, pushed for this illegal invasion and occupation. John McCain pushed hard for the quagmire and refused to acknowledge that pulling out of Iraq is the best thing to do, ASAP.
You can be certain that entrenched Iraqi politicians and power brokers learned many lessons well, on how to cause government breakdown and failure, from the entrenched politicians and power brokers in the GOP currently working hard to give their hand picked successor, John McCain, a shot at continuing bush failures on into the future.

Just another reminder as to whom we have to applaud for the Iraq distraction - ya know? The illegal invasion and occupation - and the ensuing quagmire and continued failure there:

Outside the administration, there is still a lobby pressing for a move against Iraq, but it is President Bush's strong political standing as a wartime commander in chief that will be essential in preparing the country and its allies for an Iraq campaign, foreign diplomats and administration officials say.

On Dec. 5, Congressional leaders sought to frame the justification for attacking Mr. Hussein in a letter to the president.

''For as long as Saddam Hussein is in power in Baghdad, he will seek to acquire weapons of mass destruction and the means to deliver them,'' said the letter, signed by Senators Trent Lott, Joseph I. Lieberman and John McCain, among others. ''We have no doubt that these deadly weapons are intended for use against the United States and its allies. Consequently, we believe we must directly confront Saddam, sooner rather than later.''
Any particular names jump out at you up there?
Bush, John McCain and their neoconservative buddies are responsible for the Iraq 10 BILLION DOLLAR PER MONTH taxpayer boondoggle. McCain and his neocon buddies are also responsible for lies that got us there in the first place.

"Climate change" - What a joke John McCain is when it comes to the environment:

McCain Scores a ZERO on the Environment

Arizona Senator Skipped Every Crucial Vote in 2007

Washington, D.C.--In the 2007 National Environmental Scorecard released today by the League of Conservation Voters, John McCain receives a score of ZERO. McCain was the only member of Congress to skip every single crucial environmental vote scored by the organization, posting a score lower than Members of Congress who were out for much of the year due to serious illnesses--and even lower than some who died during the term. By contrast, the average Member of Congress scored a 53 in 2007. McCain posts a lifetime score of only 24.

Statement of Carl Pope, Sierra Club Executive Director

"We were appalled two weeks ago when John McCain was the only Senator who chose to skip a crucial vote on the future of clean energy in America-dooming the measure to fail by just a single vote. As it turns out, this was merely the most recent example of a clear pattern of missing the most important votes on energy and the environment--as his abysmal LCV score clearly demonstrates.

"McCain missed votes to save his constituents $499 million dollars at the pump and at least $550 million on their energy bills, while creating more than 10,000 new clean energy jobs in his home state.

"Out of 535 Members of Congress, John McCain is the only one who chose to miss every single key environmental vote scored by the League of Conservation Voters last year. When it came time to stand up and vote for the environment, John McCain was nowhere to be found.

"Every other Member who received a zero from LCV last year at least had the temerity to show up and vote against the environment and clean energy time after time. And unlike John McCain, I doubt any of them would claim to be environmental leaders or champions on global warming.

"The votes chosen by LCV represent the most important votes on the most pressing environmental matters facing us today: energy, global warming, clean water, stewardship of our public lands, and other crucial issues. Republicans and Democrats alike in both chambers received perfect scores of 100 this year, proof that being green isn’t a question of red or blue.

"John McCain’s LCV score exposes the real record behind the rhetoric: a lifetime pattern of voting with polluters and special interests instead of consumers and the planet when it comes time to stand up and be counted. Or perhaps worse yet: a consistent refusal to stand up and be counted at all. We encourage people to contact John McCain and tell him it’s time to start showing up to vote when the environment is on the line."

McCain sat there in a forum that was supposed to be about their religious views concerning political decisions and positions... And lied, Lied, LIED. Lying is something John McCain does often. It's the republican way. Not just little lies, But big bold faced lies.

About the only environment group that truly endorses John McCain is the Big Oil for less regulation and taxation of poor oil corporations and more destruction of the earth policy group. And Big Oil lobbyist money continues to pour into his campaign faster than McCain can say "drill, drill, drill!

A private roundtable with McCain will be held for his Colorado Finance Committee at 5:30 p.m. at The Petroleum Club at the downtown Denver Athletic Club. Attendees at the roundtable were to raise $25,000 apiece, according to the invitation.

That will be followed by a photo opportunity with McCain for $2,300 per person, then a general reception for $1,000 per person.

About 150 people total are expected

McCain is already getting money from oil companies at about a 3 to 1 advantage over Obama... They know McCain's vote can be bought. Which would clearly explain Obama getting donations from the Military at about a 6 to 1 ratio advantage over the "eternal war for oil McCain." They know that McCain's vote has already been bought and paid for by big oil too. They also know what that means in Iraq.
According to an analysis of campaign contributions by the nonpartisan Center for Responsive Politics, Democrat Barack Obama has received nearly six times as much money from troops deployed overseas at the time of their contributions than has Republican John McCain, and the fiercely anti-war Ron Paul, though he suspended his campaign for the Republican nomination months ago, has received more than four times McCain's haul.

Despite McCain's status as a decorated veteran and a historically Republican bent among the military, members of the armed services overall -- whether stationed overseas or at home -- are also favoring Obama
On McCains failed Marriage(s)

And then there is John McCain's own self admitted "Biggest Moral Failure" in his divorce - which is really the multiple affairs on both his first and second wife, his divorce from his first wife, and never mind the lobbyist ties that were never covered - and his campaign even attempted to use one of the purported affairs as a cover story to distract from lobbyist ties in this campaign - when he simply called his divorce his "Biggest Moral Failure."

McCain, when trying to define "marriage" in one of his canned responses, never seemed to mention - nor did Rick Warren call him out for it - the fact that his definition of marriage didn't mention that you could be a serial marriar in his little world and enjoy multiple affairs unquestioningly. That defines McCain's position on marriage and McCain's real faith right there.

McCains personal actions speak volumes about his real faith where his words failed to reveal the truth about his real political positions.

Though McCain does have big, big - HUGE - credibility issues - not just the with many of the voters that showed up at that forum - this was a forum that was made up of what, in the recent past, was a near guaranteed vote for his corrupt side of the campaign aisle.

The reality here is that McCain had to quell the rush of new, younger and more enlightened religious voter that puts more than just tired old Dobsonite campaign issues and wild eyed warmongering of bigoted and radical religious relics into the equation for their values vote.

I am going to give this pastor the benefit of the doubt on all of this before tonight's debate between Obama and McCain since his background seems to show a little more enlightenment than most of the religious types we have seen spoon-fed to the masses on TV news in the last couple of decades:

"As a pastor, I believe in the separation of church and state, but I don't believe we can separate religion from politics, because one's faith determines one's worldview, which informs one's decisions and determines how one would lead," Warren said.
His views on many of the political problems we face appear to be more encompassing - to include all of the very real problems of AIDS, poverty, the environment - as well as the other issues we usually hear about from the one-trick pony that Dobson's Focus on the Freepers has become. There are too many important issues that Dobsonites have purposefully and completely ignored and, even, fought hard to suppress in the religious discussions of politics.
McCain talked the canned talk but, and this is where McCain's silly walk express falls flat on it's huge BUTT, his voting record clearly shows disdain for all of the other issues where he never walked the walk. Heck, most of the time he didn't even care enough about issues enough to bother to show up to vote.

And, in failing to address these issues honestly and thoughtfully...

McCain lost this debate big time to the newer and younger voters that are going to look at his words, hit the internet... And match his words up against his record.

McCain lived a big lie last night, but has never lived a bigger life than Obama.

The NRO should be embarrassed by their pitiful propaganda piece.

Many of the things that I wrote about yesterday cover issues that were never covered honestly in the debate last night:

But I do have a problem with some of the McClatchy story on the debate:

McCain often mentions how his faith sustained him while a prisoner of war in Vietnam, telling how one of his captors treated him humanely and once secretly drew a cross in the first to signal his own faith.

McCain also talks about his stewardship of the environment and care for the poor — his wife helped found the American Voluntary Medical Team and led 55 medical missions overseas to deliver emergency medical care to the poor. Asked to provide medical care to two babies from Mother Theresa's orphanage, McCain brought one home and the McCains adopted her.

McCain, reared an Episcopalian, now attends a Southern Baptist church in Arizona. He opposes abortion rights.

Obama has talked about how his Christian faith influenced his public life, which included working as a neighborhood organizer trying to help people who lost their jobs. He became a practicing Christian as an adult, joining the Trinity Church of Christ headed until recently by the Rev. Jeremiah Wright. Obama quit the church during the primary campaign after inflammatory comments by Wright hit the Internet. He supports abortion rights.

Never mind the multiple hypocrisies like: McCain calling his captors gooks; being on the republican team, McCain has literally and consistently put corporations ahead of your health and the health of the environment (Some steward, eh?) and talks about the environment but refuses to vote for it; And being on the same republican team that has refused - after decades of control over congress and nearly a decade of control in the White House - to do absolutely anything substantive to address Americans' health care needs and has created the largest gap in decades between the rich and poor AND created more working poor families than I can ever remember seeing in my lifetime. Never mind the pure hypocrisy in all of that...

What I want to know: Why do they have to write the story to say that McCain attends a different church - You know? Different from the one that gave McCain his faith that was so rock solid that it carried him through his POW experience on into his multiple affairs (not even mentioned in this story on personal faith) and divorce (not a word on that either?) - But Obama?

Obama QUIT the church.

Yep! McCain simply attends a different church but Not Obama... Obama quit the church. All things considered, is that a fair assessment and honest message coming from any of the traditional media given this topic of personal faith? Interesting choice of words. Kind of straight out of a Frank Luntz school of framing for the media.

How are we supposed to judge a debate focusing on giving "a place for America to hear the candidates' hearts by going beyond moral issues and their virtues, to also share their values and vision for leadership" when important facts are misrepresented and left unchecked in the media before the debate has even started?

Hopefully the pastor will give an honest effort illuminating the issues that are truly in the public interests. But, equally important, I hope that the pastor has done his homework on the many issues that are too often left answered - or are reported on - in a dishonest manner by politicians and media stenographers.

Anyways... The debate, the first time Obama and McQueeg, err, McCain will meet to put forth their positions from any point of view - faith based or not - is tonight at 8 P.M. for your own personal viewing pleasure - Faith based or not.

[update] It appears that it really isn't a debate after all. Just an interview setting for the two candidates to discuss these issues with Warren:
“Though appearing separately, the candidates will field similar questions about their faith, abortion, same-sex marriage and humanitarian efforts abroad,” writes Maeve Reston in The Los Angeles Times. It is a chance for both to hone their comments on sensitive topics and practice connecting with an audience not chosen by their tightly controlled campaigns.”
While the HuffPo calls it a "forum" on faith:
Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama has reaffirmed his stance that marriage is "the union between a man and a woman," although he supports civil unions for gay partners.
Sorry, but I am for marriage equality... Because you can't pick and choose who has a right to freedom. Never mind the fact that I never had to get permission from gays, lesbians and bisexuals in order for me to be allowed to get married to my wife. Why should they have to get my permission?

Apparently Blue Texan at Firedoglake is "drunkblogging" this event:
Who loves Jesus more?

That's what we're about to find out as Barack Obama meets John McSame at Rick Warren's megachurch in the heartland of America -- Orange County, California.

A note on Warren -- he helped Bush get elected in 2004. And Serious Person of Faith Andrew Sullivan calls him "pernicious."

For the record, this practicing Roman Catholic thinks this is absolutely terrible for the republic and a huge freaking embarrassment. But aided by a pretty decent pinot noir, I'll give you my thoughts, in real time.

Get your Tivos revved up... This really is campaign comercial stuff dreams are made of:
McSame just refused to define what upper and middle class was in actual terms. Amazing. Though [McCain] finally copped to saying "rich" meant "$5 million a year." That's a campaign ad, Obama people. Contrast that with Obama's very direct answer. Not very straight-talky.
$5 million per year is rich??? How out of touch with the realities of today's economy can McCain possibly be? $5 million per year is uber-ultra-elitist rich. You can bet that Cindy McCain, his second wife, is the one that watches their money 'cause McCain is clueless when it comes to the cost of living.

[update] Welcome to Blog Revolution and Buzztracker readers that seem to be finding this and other pages on this Blog for some reason or another?

If you are pro-choice, clearly John McCain isn't for you.

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